Tag: podcasts
LadyCouch Loves You…and Tag Team “Whoomp! There It Is”

LadyCouch Loves You…and Tag Team “Whoomp! There It Is”

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“Whoomp! There It Is!” is talking about their particular art scene as a whole, even though it’s more T&A based.  — Keshia Bailey and Allen Thompson, co-founders of jam band LadyCouch on their favorite one hit wonder by Tag Team

The conversation bounces around so much between Sloane Spencer and the co-founders of LadyCouch (Keshia Bailey and Allen Thompson) that who knows where it is while they talk about their favorite one hit wonder from 1993. But the Nashville duo finally lands on “Whoomp There It Is” by Tag Team. But don’t confuse it with 95 South’s “Whoot There It Is”, though the trio chats about the differences and similarities between the two. 

My philosophy is ‘hit’ is however you want to define it. It’s whatever it means for the conversation. — Sloane Spencer, host of One Hit History, on how loosely the podcast defines “hit”

Listen to see how the strip club scene in Atlanta in the 90s was essential to the music scene, the unlikely way the band got their party song on the streets, and how many musicians’ favorite one hit wonders come outside of the genre in which they perform and write. 

That recent Geico commercial has taken me back to the spring of ‘93.  — Allen Thompson (LadyCouch co-founder)

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Music Mentions

Don’t forget to give One Hit History a five star rating! 

AI Transcript

Sloane Spencer  Hey y’all Sloane Spencer here you found us. It’s one hit history, the new podcast where we talk with music people about what’s your favorite one hit wonder. We’re fixing to jump in talking with our friends Keshia Bailey and Allen Thompson of the band LadyCouch. They got the new record out called future looks fun. It’s on Blackbird records. You can find it in all your favorite places where music is available. We’ll talk with them a little bit throughout the conversation about their own music as well and the cool stuff they have coming up. But first, let’s just jump right in some y’all. What’s your favorite one hit wonder.

Keshia Bailey Oh my god. This is so hard.

Allen Thompson So we’ve got a lot of favorite one hit wonders. But that recent GEICO commercial with tag team has taken me back to the spring of 1993. And made me really think about Whoop, there it is, by tag team versus Whoop, there it is by 95. Sell. The course is almost identical. Minus the spelling of the whoop and or WOOT in the title, subject matter. Kind of similar. I feel like tag jeans, the writings a little stronger. Lyrically, it’s a little bit more poetic. Both of them are you know, pretty much worldwide sports Hanson’s at this point. Yes, absolutely.

AT Anybody that has been to a football game or owns any of the 385 editions have now That’s What I Call Music, you’ve definitely heard

SS both songs platinum at the minimum, in fact, the whoop version of it multi platinum and the WOOT version, platinum, both of them and not 100. And just absolutely successful in and of their own right. But it’s been that continuation through sports and advertising that has made these songs of the millennium in many ways.

AT I mean, they open the door for Who let the dogs out many other one hit wonder classics.

SS We’re gonna feature the song, who let the dogs out on another one hit history, because there’s actually quite a bit more behind the scenes about that particular song as well. So hold those thoughts on that particular song. But yeah, but styling.

AT I mean, I’m interested, I’m looking forward to that episode.

SS It is nothing at all what you think that’s all I’m gonna say. This particular type of sound was that was coming out in the early 90s. I of course, very much associated with the Atlanta sound that was coming with tag team, they developed as like house DJs out of the strip club scene of Atlanta, which has been a vibrant musical and performance scene for many decades. If you’re not from Atlanta, or you haven’t been to Atlanta, or you missed Atlanta in the 90s I mean, that’s just what it was. They came up out of the DJ scene there at a club called Magic City and the day they recorded this they took it into the club to play it and got immediate response from the folks there and they were like heck yeah, we got to hit here and then no major labels would touch it because it was a different kind of sound that sort of southern bass thing that ultimately we all reflect on are like Oh yeah, that was a scene but they were opening that door but the major labels weren’t ready for this sort of positive party you know, Southern bass thing so they borrowed money from family pressed 800 copies on their own sold them in parking lots right away. And ultimately Mercury Records was like I think maybe the sky like used to work for stacks we’ll figure out how to market this for you. So they put our bell in charge. And there you are, number one, hot r&b Number two hot 100 multi cloud I didn’t realize that our bell was there, a&r is that insane? Ausubel big deal here?

AT Yeah, I mean, I didn’t realize that.

SS Yeah, nobody else would touch it. All the labels like couldn’t figure it out because they’re like, this is like a fun song. What do we do with that?

AT Well, that was a big issue and all over the East Coast. I mean, you know, what, Dre and DJ Quik and everybody else were doing in Los Angeles. Like that was pretty much the standard you had like the 2 Live Crew pockets in Miami and we’ll get to there we start talking about night five sound right because they’re Miami had all these things happening like in the Atlanta strip club scene and in New York, with Wu Tang and puffy and you know big and everybody like that but none of them had broke yet and everyone even the New York based labels like Def Jam was afraid to touch any of these

SS I definitely can’t speak to like the whole east coast West Coast thing that ultimately developed out of that I’m not an expert on it. The sound was different and it had a different thing behind it in a lot of ways that the industry was like we don’t know

Keshia Bailey (LadyCouch)  4:27   right? When we’re thinking of one hit wonders in our favorite one hit wonder speaking of bells and need award you can ring my bell and other hit Friday share the held it and that was the only one that was the top pin damn shame because she’s amazing you can amazing to one hit was ringing my bell. You mean my bed? 

AT We should probably cover that.

KB Yeah, we probably should actually that’d be really good little test to do. Nice transition from our bell to bell I got Time to say why isn’t anyone that’s why you’re here.

AT I love you. So yeah. Back into one hit wonder

 SS I adore one hit wonders so much so that it’s probably one of my favorite musical subjects. But what I really like about asking this question to music people is that almost everybody has mentioned something that is outside the genre of music that they write. And that aspect of it has been fascinating to me. You know, like, when you’re asking musicians about it, it’s kind of a different thing.

KB Like, just when we were like, we’re talking about Anita Ward, like ringing my bell. Yes, sorry. There’s so much of what she’s done that like, I love that I don’t like yes, that would not have been her one hit. But I don’t think about it. In those terms. It’s the same way. Like, I don’t think about the Grateful Dead as being a one hit wonder even though a touch of gray is the only hit

KB that you know, thinking of like the Verve, right? And doing bittersweet symphony. How many people covered that tune? That was the only song that they actually had?

SS My philosophy about this is hit is defined however you want to define it. So if it’s like the only song that your band is known for, so like, Aha, with Take on me would be a great example from the 80s. In the US, that’s the only song they’re known for. In Europe, they were a wildly popular band with dozens of popular songs. But they’re, that’s it, it is whatever it means for the conversation. But so this particular song that y’all chose the Whoop, there it is, which by the way has two different official titles of its own. You can have with one Oh, or so it’s either Whoop, there it is. Or it’s whoops, there it is. I think they’re getting credits under both. But then there’s also this one out of Miami by 95. South that is almost the same tagline, but the song itself is different. Woot. There it is, I don’t know this one at all. I had to go back and listen, and I was like, Yeah, that’s exactly the same. This is completely outside of my wheelhouse. The

AT subject matter is a little bit different like 95 shots like whoop, there it is definitely more female body appreciation.

KB Say in the sensory manner, by where I think, Whoop, there it is, is more talking about their particular art scene as a whole even though that particular art scene was also T&A based. They articulated it in a little bit more of a poetic way. For me growing up, my older brother had the Camaro with the bazookas and you know, we listened to so much to Live Crew and so much Miami bass wars and all that because you know, you got to shake that car. There it is, man before I was at work there it is, man. Oh my goodness, I wanted to become more of a lyricist. I appreciate the tag team a little bit more.

KB So you partied on party people now again, exactly. This is also very informative. This is good for me to know who has been doing the best to be really fun to you and I like it that’s why I didn’t want to do like any of the research or any of the talking together. This conversation to be exactly what this conversation

SS Keisha What is it you’re learning about your bandmate here through this conversation?

KB Lord have mercy!  Yes When I think I can’t learn anything else. I think the one thing that I constantly pick up from Allen and I’m very lucky enough

<horn honks, yelling>

AT our horn player is driving an Uber and he just pulled up

SS Welcome to Nashville, y’all.

AT Hey Kircher we love you. We are doing an interview talking about Santa.

SS What’s his favorite flavor?

AT Oh, this guy he loves

SS <aside> so we’re referencing our other podcast called bubble bottles which this band LadyCouch has also been on if you haven’t heard that, check that out. It’s at bubble bottles.com But right now we’re talking one hit history.

KB Oh with Allen  and one hit history’s The thing is, is that I was really good about explaining a 10 There have been so many times that I will think that a song that I think I’ve known my whole life. I said one thing and then Alan’s like quiche, what are you saying right? You think that’s not what they’re saying? Like think about it in this aspect. And I have to sit back and go How the hell did I not know this? And how did you know this without me? It’s the same with everyone. Just wonder why I didn’t pick wishing well or this love because I knew that you and I would just have the same things to say about Anita Baker Terence Trent D’Arby

KB also I have my brain. And I would pick wishing well He knows me on another level. I would have been super pissed if we hadn’t been talking about 10 shirt. Sorry, we were not doing that today. He was braids is not talking about Trent.

KB I will say that if you want to have us back to talk about Terrence Trent D’Arby. I’m so down.

AT Sweet love not this love. Sorry.

KB Yeah, you’re welcome.

AT That’s fine. I don’t want to talk about them really that much at all?

SS No, I have a bunch of one hit until they finally have a whole hit record for in years. One hit for 10 years. He’s gonna let me show I like him. Like,

KB I don’t even know if he’s there anymore. Anyway. So basically what I’ve learned  a lot about Allen through all of this, and in our one hit wonder drum, if you will, that a word? Sure. I know that I can call Allen and say, Have you heard this? Tell him I’ve been sleeping on what is this? Or Whoa, send me thing. And they’ll think I’ve heard this before. But I realized that this is the only song from said artists that has ever happened. And then I immediately started thinking, damn, I listen to this whole record. And then I listen to the record. And I go, No, yeah, listen to the whole record, you’re listening to this one song is great. I find my tune and I pick it. I mean, there’s certain albums that I like, he’ll devil or my albums, but I’ll listen to people long enough until that one song that really speaks to me. And then that song just becomes my song.

KB I know. And I enjoy that you chose Whoot. There it is,

AT versus whoop there. I think it’s important thing to talk about because like, I would be interested to know like, how these two apps feel about one another because you know, they’ve got to have been on a ton of bills together, especially like in the early 2000s and stuff.

KB So basically one’s a dance mix and one’s a studio mix.

AT Well. They’re different. They’re Atlanta versus Miami. Dance.

AT But they’re right down the road. They just changed it right. A P to a tee. Well, yeah, maybe they cheated off of one another. This would be like okay, Patti LaBelle and Dionne Warwick, same song and they refused. They didn’t know about each

SS other. Yeah, the songs like a month apart, but there’s no evidence that they knew each other ahead of time. They both were writing a song based on a commonly used phrase in their community. And just kind of riffing on the phrase. Yeah.

AT And like neither of them had any idea that it’s like Garth Brooks and Todd Snider would be right, you know,

KB like Okay, wait. Okay. Now my question is though, is the they both know what whoops, there it is. Was venue a very well was there it is. When it was there it is. Was it an object? What was there for it to be is? You think Lady cops could do a cover of boots? There it is.

AT I think we should do like we should merge the bus since we’re a jam band. We should do the segue you know with the arrow and setlist do woot. There it is in the Whoop, there it is into the other one. Absolutely. You should

KB know we do. We got to do salt and pepper after that, then. Yeah. I also want to back right into what a man I want to take a minute to get as much effective. That’ll go right into some

AT Oh, yeah, then no, I also would like to combine week by SWV with twice as hard by the Black Crowes because you know that all for the same the same person because they all all their voices, some say? Yeah, so like, I be really intrigued to like, show all of this weird neighborhood connections.

SS  This did not go where I expected.

KB Me either. And I’m so sorry.

AT I could probably write a dissertation on how like I think Chris Robinson should have been a member of SWV. Like you saying, it’s just like the other three goes left bam.

KB Oh, we definitely think better than the Alto.

AT My big theory with Athens is that there’s one teacher at UGA. That was a big Ethel Merman fan, which is why Fred Schneider and John Bell and Michael SIPE all kind of sing about the same thing. Todd Snider barefoot, walking out on stage. Time after time after time on Jan to hide his. I would love to see him walk out barefoot is all of a sudden, we’re getting in on an SWV song

SS all over the place with Keshia Bailey and Alan Thompson of Lady couch and they’re one hit wonder mirror twins of whoop there it is. And whoops, there it is by tag team and 95 South respectively. Future looks fine. Their brand new album is out now. They all got a cool video on the way real soon as well.

AT For our song do what you got to do. One of our very favorite artists we get to collaborate this guy name August Brisson. He’s from Estonia is one of our favorite anime And he has a second video that he’s worked on with us and we’re super pleased with it.

SS Very, very cool. So on the road and hanging out with us here at one hit history, Keisha Bailey and Alan Thompson of Lady couch. I’m Sloane Spencer, you can find us at one hit history comm you can support us at patreon.com/one Hit history, we also chatted with Keisha Bailey and Alan Thompson of Lady couch on our other podcast, bubble bottles. You can find it there and find out all their favorite flavors. Thanks for listening to other music. We appreciate you.

DISCLAIMER  One Hit History is a comedy podcast. All comments are made in fun and not necessarily factual.
Rachel Cholst Loves Cowboy Mouth “Jenny Says”

Rachel Cholst Loves Cowboy Mouth “Jenny Says”

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The shows themselves have this glue of positivity, connecting all the songs, and this idea that you can do anything, and you can get through these difficult times.

Some songs are so cathartic and just speak right into your heart at the right time in your life, as Rachel Cholst feels about Cowboy Mouth’s classic song “Jenny Says.” Listen and learn some obscure tidbits of info about the energetic, New Orleans-based band.

I know they have a reputation that it’s a frat boy band, but there are a lot of people out there for whom they’ve done so much. And I hope that also is a part of their legacy.

Cholst, a well-known freelance writer and creator of queer country music zine Rainbow Rodeo and the Adobe & Teardrops blog discusses the effect the Cowboy Mouth has had on her life, music, and social justice-focused activities with host Sloane Spencer.

90s college rock has a very specific sensibility where it’s happy and sad at the same time. And when you’re 12 going on 13 — yeah, that hits.

Don’t forget to give One Hit History a five star rating! 

Links:

Music Mentions:

Enjoy this playlist featuring some of the artists we talked about in this episode.

Enjoy the on-going One Hit History playlist, featuring the songs featured on the episodes.

AI Transcript

Sloane Spencer  0:00  Hey y’all Sloane Spencer here you found us it is one hit history. We’re real easy to find online one hit history.com or support us at patreon.com/oneHithistory. I’m talking with somebody today who is a music person that if you don’t already know you should, behind some incredibly important and fascinating outlets, Adobe and Teardrops and Rainbow Rodeo the zine you definitely need to know. Rachel Cholst. Hello.

Rachel Cholst  0:26  Hi. Thank you so much for having me and for that really generous introduction.

Sloane Spencer  0:32  Well, absolutely. So real quick before we jump into the big question and the fun part of this, creatively, what have you been working on lately?

Rachel Cholst  0:40  That is a rueful laugh. Because I’ve mostly been writing essays since I’m working towards my MSW. And after about five years of doing freelance journalism on tight deadlines, while working a full time job writing like a five page paper double spaced is like really nothing to me. No, but time and energy.

Sloane Spencer  0:59  Definitely, definitely. So give people the quick rundown on what Adobe and Teardrops is.

Rachel Cholst  1:04  Sure. So I began Adobe and Teardrops in part inspired by the band we’re going to be talking about cowboy mouth around is a lyric from one of their songs Man on the Run. Yeah, that was always meant to be a space to focus on artists who were flying below the mainstream sonically, of course, I think it’s sort of getting more of a resurgence. But in the early 2010s, there was a lot of crossover between punk and country that I’ve found really excited. But then also artists who are generally marginalized by the music industry. So women, LGBTQ people, BiPOC people then to really shine a light on those artists within the Americana world.

Sloane Spencer  1:45  Definitely. And so their extensive online assets that you can investigate regarding Adobe and Teardrops, and that’s interesting that you say this, because punk is how I found country as well, I did not grow up with country and have zero background in it other than that, that I’ve discovered through that kind of punk country world. So I did not realize we had that in common. And then rainbow radio is a great, and you’ve got one gorgeous issue.

Rachel Cholst  2:07  Thank you. We are working on issue number two, but the explanation is going to be a lot simpler. It’s a zine by and for and about queer country music.

Sloane Spencer  2:14  And you are in the midst of a wonderful community of that where you are as well.

Rachel Cholst  2:18  Yes, yeah, I’ve been writing for a number of publications that all promote diversity within Americana, and country music such as no depression and the boot. And I’ve written for country queer in the past, but I’m no longer writing with them.

Sloane Spencer  2:33  So really wonderful content out there. And Rachel is easy to find online. And you definitely should check out her amazing both interviews and written content that is available as well. So this is probably I have two favorite questions to talk with folks about music people in particular, like hanging out backstage or when you have that weird like awkward like the sets delay 15 minutes, what are we going to talk about, because then I have to emcee this event. And my two favorite questions are two new podcasts. And this one is what’s your favorite one hit wonder.

Rachel Cholst  3:04  I can probably with many like true one hit wonders like off the top my head just nostalgia for 90s rocks, because that’s one I was like a younger person, my tweens and teens, but for today I chose Jenny says by cowboy now, what is not even my favorite song by them, but I think it’s the song that they’re the best known for. And one could argue they were a one hit wonder, and especially the SE with that song. So absolutely.

Sloane Spencer  3:29  So here’s the interesting thing. I know this song as a dash rip rock song. Ah, so I I’m quite a bit older, and I came up as a huge fan of Dash rip rock. We used to go see them a lot. Although they are from Louisiana. I’m from Atlanta, and they had a big hub in Atlanta. In fact, there was this great 688 club where you go see all the great shows. And then 688 Records put out some compilation albums, one of which had a couple of songs from a band called arms akimbo a couple of songs from a little band called drivin n cryin and a couple of songs from dash rip rock on it. And so dash were like we would they came through town monthly and we wouldn’t go every time.

Rachel Cholst  4:09  So the connection between dash rip rock and cowboy mouth is that Fred LeBlanc was from New Orleans was the drummer for a data proc briefly, briefly. And I got the contributed, Jenny says. And then he left to start his own band where he could be the frontman and the drummer. That was Yeah, boy, though.

Sloane Spencer  4:27  I remember all of this happening as they came through town and they suddenly had this new drummer, they did play that song it was almost identical to the version of it that we all know now, a little more of a dash take on it, but he was drumming and it was him on the vocal and then it came out on their album ace of spades. And then very quickly, this is like approximately 1989 I’m gonna guess very quickly. Cowboy mouth was a thing and was coming through town and they were much more what you see when you think of like from blah, blah stage persona. Now

Rachel Cholst  4:59  Yeah, like It’s also like a huge country influence the act of John Thomas Griffith, who is still playing guitar and one of the founding members like he hung out with all the country people. He was telling me one time, he was like, Oh, I live in a house with him. And this person, this person, I was like, holy shit. And then Paul Sanchez was also part of the founding trio. And I think the timeline was he had been up in New York, where I’m from trying to get into the folk and anti folk scene, and then came back down to New Orleans, and he had already been John Thomas. So they all ended up doing cowboy math together. And I don’t think any of them really expected it was going to last I think there’d been some long standing personality clashes conflict, basically propelled the band for about 15 years before I left,

Sloane Spencer  5:47  they were kind of known for that being part of what was going on with the band.

Rachel Cholst  5:50  Yes, I hadn’t, you know, when I was a kid, so I was blissfully unaware, even though I got very involved in all the various cowboy mouth message boards

Sloane Spencer  5:59  that there were, oh, so this is fascinating to me. So the version of Jenny says from Cowboy mouth, when you think of it in music, cultural history right now is the version they released in 96. That actually did chart in 97. So technically, it is their one hit. Although my definition of one hit wonder is, what is that one song This band is known for? And this is very much it, I think, to this day, they still close out all their shows with it.

Rachel Cholst  6:23  Oh, yeah, totally. So it’s hard every time to

Sloane Spencer  6:27  just type in cowboy mouth. Jenny says live and just watch some videos, you’re gonna be like, I’m gonna watch this 25 times in a row.

Rachel Cholst  6:33  Yeah, if you’ve never heard them before, you probably want to watch them first, as we can see, because Fred already recorded the song with Dash Rip Rock, and then he recorded it with cowboy mouth, but they recorded that song like twice, so he often will go back to older material, and we record it, I think that was a motif with the band. And part of it was, I think, artistic reasons, but also like financial considerations as well, they jumped around to different record labels.

Sloane Spencer  6:59  Various labels work in very different ways. And that has drastically drastically changed over the last several decades. And many bands that you probably know in love from, say the 80s, and 90s, are getting nothing off of the recordings that they made at that time. And that’s why a lot of bands go back and re record among other things. They deserve to be compensated for their art,

Rachel Cholst  7:16  right, like Taylor Swift, you’re recording all of her album. I mean, she could do that, because she can I know, count by mouth did eventually buy their masters from MCA back. Yeah, I mean, it was really tough for them for a while. I interviewed Fred and JtG last spring, you know, when we’re all in lockdown. Right? So cool to have, you know, 90 minute conversations with both of them. And then separately, it was fascinating. They were both saying actually what they saw.

Sloane Spencer  7:46  Let’s do let’s dive deep into this. So my cultural knowledge of Jenny says is pretty limited to the early part of it. And honestly, although I saw cowboy mouth maybe six years ago, I’m not super aware of them and their songwriting within the community of kind of the punk country world. How did you as a New Yorker end up a fan of cowboy mouth from north?

Rachel Cholst  8:11  Yes. So I think the short version of the story was I just sort of fallen into classic rock on my own. I mean, other than the Beatles and The Beach Boys, it wasn’t really something my parents listened to. I don’t think they were like into that music when it was popular. My mom loves classical music, and my dad has so many Kenny G albums and but I got into classic rock and especially like the sort of Heartland rock and Southern rock of like John Mellencamp, particularly for somebody who’s not Bruce Springsteen.

Sloane Spencer  8:40  Okay, this is interesting. So what Melanie was speaking to you, I have to know this jack and Diane, that was like, okay, so not like anything done with the night or something like that? No.

Rachel Cholst  8:49  And then when I found out he had done all those other sounds like oh, yeah, like, Okay, so anyway, I went to this summer camp in New Hampshire that has a different name now, but it used to be called interlocking and then after, so there’s the interlocking in, whereas Minnesota that yeah, no, this was not it. So they’ve changed the name now and the original families hold it. But the point is that one of my counselors who I’m still Facebook friends with, I don’t know she was in her like, mid 20s or something. And she was in between apartments. So she packed up her and brought it to camp. Awesome. Just had it and so when we were getting up in the morning, and like sweeping like the little cabin and making her beds and stuff, she would play music, and one of the album’s she put on was word of mouth by cowboy mouth. And like that was it was over. She I mean, she also played stuff like train before they were super popular. Better than ever, like guessing from the music. She had like Toad, the wet sprocket and stuff she was into, like college run from the south. We listened to all of that, but there was something about cowboy mouth that really spoke to me and I think it was the gesture towards country music.

Sloane Spencer  9:54  So this is fascinating on a lot of different levels because I’ve always been like a music fan and my parents are big music fans. So I grew up with a bevy of both classic rock and r&b, specifically in our household and old school. So, so that was our background. But summer camp was a huge influence on me musically, as well. I went to an academic camp on a college campus. And I discovered college radio when I was like 10. And became absolutely obsessed. And so it’s interesting how it’s kind of like that right time of life that suddenly like, this random man speaks to you deeply, you know?

Rachel Cholst  10:34  Yeah. And then like, 90 of college Rock has like a very specific sensibility where it’s like happy and sad at the same time. And when you’re 12 going on 13 Like, yeah, that hits.

Sloane Spencer  10:49  So I’m absolutely fascinated by the fact that cowboy mouse is the one that ultimately spoke to you. And really, from what I know about you, and your work, musically, has a foundational band, would that be appropriate to categorize? Yeah, totally. This has stuck with you, all of this time. How has Jenny says and or cowboy mouth kind of evolved for you in the influence in things that are still of interest to you about it.

Rachel Cholst  11:16  One thing that’s really important to understand about cowboy mouth is that the music isn’t the only part of experiencing the band. But Fred, as the front, man, we like the whole stage patter, almost like there’s this one press clipping that they keep using about how like it is sort of rock and roll gospel, like the songs are sad, because they are rock and country songs. There’s a lot of breakups and heartbreak between like three of them. Their process was that they didn’t really write songs together as a band so much again, because I think of the personality conflict, John and Paul would write a lot of stuff together. And then Paul would also bring in stuff he, then then David write some songs on their own. And then Fred would write songs by himself, and then did bring them together and like record, the ones they all really liked. And then they all have like their own separate thriving solo careers as well. So that’s, that’s where they were the rest of it. It’s democratic. And it makes sense, right, like, do stuff, some stuff by yourself. And I didn’t know because we couldn’t stand each other. But the shows themselves have like this glue of positivity, like connecting all the songs, and this idea that like, you can do anything, and you can get through these difficult times. And now look, we’re all here at this rock show. And we’re gonna live for the moment like right now, and celebrate life. And all the hard parts of that. And all the joyous parts of this read has like this knack of finding people who are shy and timid in the audience, especially kids. And by bringing them up on the edge and making them feel amazing. And I was never one of those kids, but because I think you could tell that my sister and I were too shy, but you know what I mean? Like, being at those shows just felt so good, and so nice. And again, once you’re like a preteen and a teenager, and you’re like thinking that maybe you’re gay, and you’re not like the other kids, and everything’s hard, like, that was like a really important thread to hold on to. It definitely shaped me as a person. And then hopefully, how I approach music and my other like, social justice related activities, this idea that like things are hard, and things are sad. And that’s part of life, but so are like the uplifting parts. And they can both can be true at the same time. And you always have to instill that sense of hope and celebration and everything.

Sloane Spencer  13:31  One of the things that I frankly was always confused about with the band, there shows even now, well, COVID is weird work. Their shows are really fun and uplifting. And of course, their lineup is morphed over the years. But you know, even back in the day when I would go see them on a regular basis. They were really known for their interpersonal conflict and large clashing egos, offstage and I was always really surprised when I saw them play because they were, I had fun every single show. And I’ll contrast that with like the Robinson brothers who I knew back when they had a band called Mr. Crows garden even back then you were waiting for the brotherly fistfight every night. So those shows weren’t always fun. I think cowboy mouth really has found some way to use the creative tension in a way that brings a positive experience for the audience. And there aren’t a lot of groups with genuine true longtime conflict like that. Who can who can do that?

Rachel Cholst  14:25  What was interesting about talking with Fred and John Thomas, are you gonna buy grabber JtG? separately? And I was like, joking about the lack of press training, but like, yeah, they talked about that conflict. very candidly, I think there’s a lot of emotions around it. I have not spoken with Paul about it. Specifically, if you follow him on social media, he makes his feelings very known. He and I have like a weird personal connection where it turned out that my fourth grade teacher who was the one who inspired me to become a teacher, he worked on a movie with Paul And they had stayed friends. And how could I have known that right? I got in the band when he was my teacher. But then I think I mentioned to him because I do this from the sound Hey, did you know this band cowboy mouth? And he’s like, holy? He didn’t say that. Because the teacher was like, Of course I do. I knew Paul. And I was able to, like, pass a couple messages back and forth between them. A small world. Yeah, it’s weird like that. Right. And then the other weird thing is that Paul lived when he was in New York City lived like in the neighborhood I live in now, which again, Manhattan is only 24 miles long. But you know, for musicians who weren’t living in Inwood, and Washington Heights. So no, I have not formally interviewed Paul, I know he was going through a lot of personal difficulties in the spring of 2020. So I didn’t really want to bother him. But back to the two interviews that are recorded, and that I’m not telling you to go find them on my podcast. Where can people find those conversations? I think the easiest way would be to go to Adobe into your drops. And then search John Thomas Griffith and search Fred LeBlanc, because I tack them on to like the podcasts. So there’s like 40 minutes of music, and then these interviews that are also pretty long, but you can skip around.

Sloane Spencer  16:09  If you want to be able to hear this conversations, you should definitely check our show notes will have those links available for you right there at one hit history calm.

Rachel Cholst  16:15  Yeah. And so I think like the biggest takeaway I got from the two interviews was that Paul does see himself as a songwriter. And I think JtG does, too. And Paul was always really focused on the band being like an outlet for creative expression, and pretzel the band, as the show this experience that you go to, I think the conflict was around what is the mission of this band and what is supposed to happen on stage. Ah, so you’ll see in like the later albums, the album’s like, oh, and Lulu shop going forward from there, because they haven’t really had that many since then, you can see that the songs are very much intended for a live show and to be sung along to. And so in my opinion, they do lose some emotional depth. And that when Paul, they’re just not the same. They’re catching on. But I think that’s also maybe why they haven’t recorded that much original music in the last 10 years.

Sloane Spencer  17:12  As I said, I saw them about six years ago, is the most recent time, it was clear that the bulk of the set was we are bringing you the songs that by the second course you can all sing along with us even if you’ve never heard it before, like it was that kind of performance.

Rachel Cholst  17:25  Yeah, yeah. And I think like, they’re definitely some cool songs post, like 9099, or whatever. But I think flu shot is probably like their last great album. And that was definitely influenced by Hurricane Katrina. They’re all from New Orleans. And, you know, it’s a huge part of the band’s identity. And of course, the identity of the people in it as a result of the hurricane. Maybe the attitude softened, and there was more collaboration, co writing, and you can hear that drinks throughout the record, in my opinion.

Sloane Spencer  17:56  So I’ve never survived Hurricane on the level of Katrina, but I do live in hurricane zone where we deal with small scale hurricanes seasonally. And it’s it’s very much a part of life here of being prepared for your hurricanes. And you have hurricane shelves and hurricane bug out bag and a plan and all that kind of thing. But of the folks I know who survived Katrina specifically, I think it was a for every one of them that I’ve spoken to about it specifically, it was definitely a life changing experience, even for the people who were not directly impacted by the flooding in the aftermath. It was reevaluate your life experiences, which I feel like a lot of folks I’ve talked with are experiencing now through COVID as well.

Rachel Cholst  18:33  Yeah, Paul off everything. And then you hear that some of the songs, it is interesting to listen to Fred’s interview, because he talks about during that time period, the band was in debt, I think, from trying to buy back MCA masters. And I think once the, we’re all in this together, kind of faded away. And Paul was like, what is happening with my life? Like, I’m not to speculate too much, you know, revive some of the tensions and there’s never been like one dedicated bass player. And then when Paul left again, with like, bringing in new guitars, I think there were some interpersonal tensions around like, who was on whose side? Sure, but for a while, they hired a number of women basis. And that was really neat to see. And then it turned out that at least two of those women thesis were also queer. And I was like, Oh, hey, to role models now. So that was also great as a little baby gay. I connected to Mary and Sonia. And then when I heard their own music, I was like, oh, yeah,

Sloane Spencer  19:34  representation really matters. And as women rock fans or women music fans of popular music of any kind, you know, I can name for you the first women guitar players and women bass players that I ever saw because that was like, a novelty in the best way of like, holy cow, like a woman can play a bass. That’s awesome. And I didn’t even know that was possible.

Rachel Cholst  19:58  Yeah, I mean, I bought a bit because of them. Mary, listen, you know good old New Orleans French name if you look up her music, it’s sometimes under very less saying La SA and G and Sonia tetlow inspired by them as Sonia was in a band called FTB. That was that sort of Achensee and I listened to that band’s first album again recently. Like, I’m still feeling like experimental expansive, like Ani DiFranco kind of rock like rock and roll. I know that they hung out a little bit with the Indigo Girls, for me. So I would definitely recommend those albums too. They’re like on sort of haphazardly on like Bandcamp and Spotify. Like if you search STB, you’ll find them. Maybe if you search Sonia tetlow. And she had her own recent records to Sonia also inspired me to start Adobe and teardrops because I didn’t realize what it would be like to be a music blogger. So I kept writing the Brian childs on nine bullets being like, Yo, you should check this person out. You should check her out. I promise. I’m not a publicist. I’m a fan. Yeah, no, it was a yellow. But I also didn’t know that he was getting like hundreds of these emails a week, if not, okay. And so I was like, Oh, he’s not responding to me. And I’m feeling like nine bullets isn’t writing about as many women as I would like to see, I should start my own blog.

Sloane Spencer  21:19  So this is kind of cool, because I will say that I have since become friends with Brian Childs, the founder of nine bullets, if you’re familiar, which is named from a drive by trucker song, they weren’t quite influential in the early music blogger sphere in which we all sort of overlap with one another. But Brian was really supportive when I was starting my other project Country Fried Rock, like really helpful. And I now realize in retrospect, I asked some really inappropriate questions musically, and like professionally, and I was not aware of that. They were not questions you should ask somebody. Like, I just didn’t know that yellow flag thing.

Rachel Cholst  21:55  Yeah, I mean, I do want to say it was like nine bullet doesn’t writing like about woman. That’s not because of any kind of editorial choice or any, like direct sexism or anything like that everyone who’s written for them is like an amazing human. I think it’s just like we were saying representation matters. And sometimes you do gravitate towards music that you can identify with. And most of the writers are men. So that must always be your music by men. And that kind of implicit sexism that we’re all a part of. So I definitely don’t want to make it sound like I’m bad mouthing them, or that Brian was ignored if

Sloane Spencer  22:25  I’m guilty of being part of this machine as well. My personal preference happens to be a particular kind of punk country influenced music that does tend to be extremely straight white, male crafted, or by white male crafted, and I’m very aware of my own implicit bias in amplifying and platforming a narrow version of what is out there as well.

Rachel Cholst  22:49  Yeah. So you know, they’re, they weren’t doing anything differently than anybody else.

Sloane Spencer  22:55  I did not know of this era of cowboy mouth when they had Mary and Tanya playing bass at different times. And really, there’s been a rotating cast of characters through the band at different times. But it sounds like they’ve really been sort of a touch point for you, musically.

Rachel Cholst  23:11  Yeah, I mean, and also, I think, just as a person, because there’s like research or statistic or something that says, like you pretty much like glom on to one musical style when you’re a teenager. And that’s kind of just what you listen to forever. Yes. Even if you listen to other stuff, with what you go back to as like your comfort food. I’m guilty of this. Yeah, because I think just like, the values that the band had the kind of attention to how they interact with their audience during concerts. They were the first band I saw it live. That’s totally shaped my expectations of like, what a band should be like. We were kids, right. And they kept changing the age limit on these shows. By the time I turned 16 was 18 Plus, and by the time I turned 18, plus it was 21. Plus, oh, my parents would take us to these my dad went with us to a show like the night my grandpa’s his mother died.

Sloane Spencer  24:08  Oh, my goodness. So we have this uncommon in that my parents took us to shows starting when we were really little because they knew they were going to be out too late for a babysitter. So my parents would like to take us to rock clubs, and we would sleep like in the venue. I’ve seen all kinds of shows. And then ancient history. It’s probably illegal to do this now that my dad used to drop me off at the 688 Punk club in Atlanta and say, I’ll be waiting out here. Just come wake me up when you’re done. As a parent of a now 18 year old, there is no way I would have let my kid do that. Now.

Rachel Cholst  24:46  I’m glad he trusted you.

Sloane Spencer  24:48  Rachel Cole’s of Adobe and teardrops and the rainbow rodeo zine. Thank you so much for sharing with me about Jenny says and cowboy mouth. Thank you.

Rachel Cholst  24:58  Thank you. Yeah, I know they have a rabbit It’s kind of like a frat boy band but there are a lot of people out there for whom room they’ve done so much. And I hope that also it was a part of their legacy.

Sloane Spencer  25:08  Absolutely. So if you’re not familiar with man, definitely go and check out some of these YouTubes particularly of Jenny says, and then when things start getting back to whatever normal is going to be in the future, go see a show you can find out more about what we have to offer for you. At one hit history dot com you can support us at patreon.com/one Hit history. Thanks for being with us.